There’s a series of questions which I’ve always found useful. It’s fascinating how often people don’t think about those little things that they believe.
“First of all, do you believe in Hell? Do you believe in an actual place where sinners are tormented for eternity?”
If that answer is “yes,” we can then move on to “Do you believe that God is an all-powerful, all-knowing being who created the universe and everything in it? Who sees the smallest sparrow fall, and knows everything – what has happened and what will happen?”
At that point, you need to point out that God is a sadist, who keeps a torture chamber in his basement just for kicks.
See, if this God person knows what will happen, then, first of all, “free will” is an illusion. He’s stacked the deck, because He knows exactly how you’re going to choose.
That being said, He chose to make you (since God, we have established, made us all) as a sinner, destined to go to Hell. He, in fact, made you that way. Brought you into existence in order that you would be tormented for all eternity.
So apparently God likes torture. In fact, He makes people for the sole purpose of being tortured.
And you want to pray to this Guy?
4 comments:
Yes, I do. I love to pray and talk with this God, who is not a Sadist. We chose to be evil in the beginning. That's what Free Will is about. We choose to glorify God by becoming His Children, or we choose to fight against him by spewing this kind of stuff.
And yes, God does know the future. He is Omniscient. But that doesn't mean our free will is an illusion. We have free will, He just knows how we will choose. That doesn't diminish our choice any, because we don't know the future.
OK, JT. You aren't listening. God knows how we will choose. He made Jeffrey Dahmer, for example, knowing that our boy Jeffy was going to end up chowing on Korean Gay Prostitute over egg noodles. Knowing that Jeffy was going to hell, and God still made him.
So He made Jeff for the sole purpose of going to hell, right? With full knowledge of what Dahmer's choices were going to be, God made him. Made him in order that God could torment him for all eternity in a lake of fire (or whatever fascinating torment Dahmer "earned" - earned, by the way, for doing exactly what God knew he was going to do.)
That doesn't sound like the actions of a wise and omniscient All-Father to me, JT. More like a cranky 8-year-old blowing up His GI Joe's with firecrackers.
And really? "We chose to be evil in the beginning"?
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you" (Jeremiah 1:5). Sounds more like He made you that way, JT. Hell, sounds like he made Eve, knowing that she'd get them turned out of Eden, doesn't it?
I love to pray and talk with this God, who is not a Sadist.
You mean the one who created hell? An eternity of punishment?
Perhaps JT doesn't know the meaning of the word 'sadist'.
Nonetheless, I am glad I was taught about hell at a young age--I'd never have become the happy atheist I am today without it.
JT... just how often have you read all of the old testament? The parts that include God killing off people for fun (Job)? The parts where God explicitly messes with people's free will so he can cause more death and pain ( hardening Pharoah's heart for example). The parts where God says that if one person in a town is preaching about other gods that the entire town is to be killed, right down to the children and livestock?
Have you ever eaten fatty meat? Well then, you are going to hell because God says that that is an abomination and that it will be such a thing for eternity.
The God of the bible is like a 5 year old having a temper tantrum. "You don't do what I say so I'm gonna torture you!" That is NOT a "loving" deity. When I disobeyed my parents, I was lectured and put on time out. I was not beaten. I was certainly not tortured. If God is willing to torture for *eternity* that humans are capable of more kindness and mercy than God and that makes God unworthy of any sort of worship even if he did exist.
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